tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post1464807948808286970..comments2024-03-27T01:07:03.944-04:00Comments on The Roses of Prose: Moving Up the Rejection Food Chain and Perceptions of Women by Jannine GallantAlison Hendersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12725250883303287946noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-50515748484946815482018-11-03T12:32:47.972-04:002018-11-03T12:32:47.972-04:00Well said, Diane. I feel the same. Completely out ...Well said, Diane. I feel the same. Completely out of touch! Maybe if they provided something different, they'd find a whole new market.Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-26002467527495331882018-11-02T20:33:42.027-04:002018-11-02T20:33:42.027-04:00I've felt for a long time that agents and edit...I've felt for a long time that agents and editors are the reason that romance still has a ripped-bodice reputation. It's not that authors don't write stories with kick-ass heroines; it's that we struggle to get them published. Every manuscript that I wrote BEFORE I learned the romance rules has been termed nontraditional, i.e. doesn't fit the mold. Sometimes, I think too many (not all) agents/editors believe romance readers are stupid. I've been told to dumb-down stuff many times. I think publishing is so out of touch with today's readers of both political parties, BTW. If the industry doesn't wake up, it will be unrelatable.Diane Garnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06000110555204777912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-9164894900946814632018-10-22T14:49:05.217-04:002018-10-22T14:49:05.217-04:00I think self-pubbing does test the market, Diane. ...I think self-pubbing does test the market, Diane. Hopefully it stretches it! Don't worry, I'll definitely let you know when the new books come out. It won't be until next year, though. I still have Hidden Secrets to promote in November!Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-1471154498301094052018-10-22T14:04:54.313-04:002018-10-22T14:04:54.313-04:00I'm appalled at what the editor told you sells...I'm appalled at what the editor told you sells. I thought the idea that the man has to rescue the woman went out with burned bras. I've often felt that self-publishing is leading the way in what the public wants. Even though I'm a lot older than the demographic that publisher is targeting, I really like reading about kick-ass women who save the guy and the day. LOL In fact, that's what I write. No wimpy girls in my books. At least, we all have more options these days for our stories. Good luck! Make sure you let us know when those books come out.Diane Burtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03754105332297068271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-40160136103499492742018-10-19T09:41:13.075-04:002018-10-19T09:41:13.075-04:00I have a hard time believing that survey is accura...I have a hard time believing that survey is accurate. But my reference point (early 20's) isn't in it, so maybe kids start reading more later in their 20's. But what sub-genres are they reading? That would be an interesting study. Honestly, I think the "everyone gets a trophy" stereotype is no more accurate than a lot of the perceptions about older women. If anything, I think the competition for young people now is even more fierce than it was when we were young. And if that's true, you would think women (young and older) would want to read about kick-ass women who are forced to succeed in a still male dominated and controlled world.Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-25499249924462437442018-10-19T06:53:33.397-04:002018-10-19T06:53:33.397-04:00Here’s hoping your rejection was just the result o...Here’s hoping your rejection was just the result of one editor/publishing house’s conclusion and maybe NOT because readers are getting older and dying off. In fact, according to a survey commissioned by RWA last year, the average age of a largely (82 percent) female readership is 35-39 with the highest percentage in the 25-34 age bracket. These kids are also of the everyone gets a trophy generation. It’s interesting that the very heroes sought in romance books, can sometimes be vilified, deserved or not, in real life. I’m with the group in believing that kick ass heroines are the wave of the future. Can’t wait to see what yours does as a self pub. I thoroughly enjoyed it! LOLMargo Hoornstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00036077481652050799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-90582797914500853422018-10-18T20:22:10.381-04:002018-10-18T20:22:10.381-04:00I'm glad I was able to spark such an engaging ...I'm glad I was able to spark such an engaging conversation, Jana! I appreciate your vote of confidence!Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-81221287976184718822018-10-18T20:03:11.589-04:002018-10-18T20:03:11.589-04:00What an interesting conversation you had with that...What an interesting conversation you had with that editor, Jannine. I'm also finding the comments here interesting, especially the ones about the age of romance readers. I wonder if younger readers find it difficult to relate to the romance heroines who are not the kick-ass kind of women they read about in fantasy novels. I'll bet if you self-publish these books, you'll do just fine. Jana Richardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16624650840243322617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-79412433083610800772018-10-18T15:32:54.246-04:002018-10-18T15:32:54.246-04:00Judy, that could also be why book sales across the...Judy, that could also be why book sales across the board are down. Younger people don't buy books the way older ones do. If that's your target market, your market is dying off! Maybe big pubs need to rethink what they publish to reach that younger generation instead of sticking to the tried and true. When I mentioned wishing I could sell like Nora Roberts to my daughters, they asked, "Who's that?" Uh, that kind of says it all.Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-91187902044941417082018-10-18T14:58:34.369-04:002018-10-18T14:58:34.369-04:00I think Alison Henderson has a great point. Curren...I think Alison Henderson has a great point. Current romance readers might very well be older women who want the stereotypical strong male. These are also the older women who go to used book stores and buy them cheaply or only buy $0.99 eBooks. (Ugh) I was disappointed to hear that strong women aren't in vogue since I just submitted a historical romance with a women as the strong heroine. (Sigh) I think we need to write what we're comfortable with, but I do know that all the younger people I know are into fantasy and paranormal which may become the norm as they age. Judy Ann Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11933875283816712058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-44507273480463659452018-10-18T14:57:57.989-04:002018-10-18T14:57:57.989-04:00That's an interesting thought, Alison. It defi...That's an interesting thought, Alison. It definitely could be an older demographic that publishers are targeting. Honestly, I don't think the younger generation reads as much as we used to. But we had 3 channels on TV growing up. They have endless choices in entertainment. My girls binge-watch Netflix instead of reading books when they have free time. I should have asked the editor I spoke with what their target market is. I can't relate to fantasy, but my girls were big fans of the Hunger Games. Katniss was another bad-ass female protagonist!Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-1943945803888795732018-10-18T14:43:20.803-04:002018-10-18T14:43:20.803-04:00Jannine, your comment about Tara got me thinking. ...Jannine, your comment about Tara got me thinking. I wonder if the average age of romance readers is skewing older. My daughter and her friends largely read fantasy—often with romance as a secondary element. The female characters are always strong. These young women grew up with Harry Potter. They completely related to Hermione Granger. It’s possible that editors and publishers are missing the boat when it comes to attracting the next generation of romance readers.Alison Hendersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12725250883303287946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-50398115456762594492018-10-18T10:52:01.094-04:002018-10-18T10:52:01.094-04:00Liz, she was speaking for what sells for them in r...Liz, she was speaking for what sells for them in romantic suspense. But I do think variety should be encouraged, and if you only publish one "type" of romantic suspense, you aren't going to know if something different would be equally successful. However, maybe it would take a bigger name in RS to break out of the mold and lead the way. I don't have star power behind me.Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-22955633694181323702018-10-18T10:44:09.396-04:002018-10-18T10:44:09.396-04:00What a shame this attitude is. You definitely did ...What a shame this attitude is. You definitely did take one on the nose for the rest of us. I'm a girly girl and I like to read about them, but it would be so boring if we all wrote about (or wanted to read about) the same types of protagonists. I think she was dead wrong.Liz Flahertyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06794565644883272260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-58624388512901590442018-10-18T10:30:23.119-04:002018-10-18T10:30:23.119-04:00I think so, too, Jennifer. I do think indie books ...I think so, too, Jennifer. I do think indie books can lead the way in changing mainstream. The challenge is getting the word out to readers. That's where I've always struggled. But honestly, I'm not sure big pubs succeed much better in the digital world with authors who don't have a name.Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-75379240887525688902018-10-18T10:27:57.599-04:002018-10-18T10:27:57.599-04:00Thanks, Brenda, I intend to! I liked the idea of m...Thanks, Brenda, I intend to! I liked the idea of making the hero a confident man who isn't a stereotypical alpha male. And the romance that appeals to the fantasy life of women is definitely still there. My girls have said I set the bar of expectations for men way to high for them when it comes to real life. LOL They say the guys they meet are NOT like my heroes.Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-57018111398222976562018-10-18T10:25:26.299-04:002018-10-18T10:25:26.299-04:00That's very disappointing, and in my opinion, ...That's very disappointing, and in my opinion, the editor is wrong. I think women are dying to relate to strong bad-ass characters. And I think your series will do very well self-published. In fact, I think it's going to take successful indie sales to show mainstream editors what we want. I'm sorry you got that news, but I'm glad you're not letting it stop you.JENNIFER WILCKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16218241106543538422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-24893358504978434522018-10-18T10:20:30.670-04:002018-10-18T10:20:30.670-04:00Funny, Jannine. We were typing basically the same ...Funny, Jannine. We were typing basically the same thing at the same time. I read an article the other day about why we women are still like this. Centuries of learning are not going to be easily changed. You know, the old stereotype of romance novels and romance readers is not far off today's mark. I think the stories have come a long ways, but basically romance is still supposed to be about a woman being saved or swept off her feet. And as for the reader, where once she was a housewife stuck at home using romance books to carry her away? Well she might be out earning the bread, but she still sees the knight on a white horse as her rescuer. BUT you know what? It only takes a book of a different angle to enter the market and gain interest. I think your editor might be wrong in that these same women could lose themselves in a new image. You still have romance in the book which is basically what they're after. Our heroes are extraordinary in what they say and do and how they treat women so the thrill is still there. Yeah, go for it, Jannine.Brenda Whitesidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04162555468154752820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-49381030601695900832018-10-18T10:07:45.697-04:002018-10-18T10:07:45.697-04:00See my previous response to Alison, Brenda. It'...See my previous response to Alison, Brenda. It's exactly what I think, too. (And I was trying to avoid turning this into a political discussion, as well.) Maybe that group is the largest demographic of romance readers. While Tara reads my books, she certainly doesn't go out and buy romance from other authors. So it's clear to me that women like her AREN'T the target market. And it's interesting that your husband is over the female detectives in the thriller books. Maybe he should switch to romance if he wants the strong Alpha male!Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-60152179324419265732018-10-18T10:00:11.408-04:002018-10-18T10:00:11.408-04:00I agree, Alison. And I thought about your series w...I agree, Alison. And I thought about your series when digesting her comments. Granted, violence at the hands of my heroine is at a different level in my first book, so maybe that made her cringe. Had it been the hero killing a bad guy, I'm pretty sure it would have been just fine. I'm disturbed by the concept that women still want to be saved. It seems to hark back to a different time in society when women weren't encouraged to think for themselves. But when I look at the political situation, that is EXACTLY what is being used to stir up voters--the idea that the good old days were better. And a lot of women are agreeing with it.Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-28171233913214694902018-10-18T09:56:06.367-04:002018-10-18T09:56:06.367-04:00Yeah, I feel disappointed too. For one thing, it s...Yeah, I feel disappointed too. For one thing, it sounds like a terrific series and I always get riled when the traditional wins over a new idea. I'm glad you're going to self-pub. I think publishers are slow to catch on to a new or good idea. Too afraid to take the risk. I hope you prove her wrong. My husband reads a lot of the crime type books and says he's tired of every detective being female. He wants to know what happened to the strong male in these books. I think that's the genre that has allowed the female lead but has flipped too far. So Patterson and the others are doing it there. BUT (here's my but) in the current climate of this U.S., I can understand the idea that a very large percentage of women still want the alpha male and want to be the withering rose. I know romance is still the biggest seller. I can only GUESS that of those readers the biggest percentage of them are the women who support the kind of men running this country. I don't mean to get political. I'm trying to approach it from a cultural angle, and the current mess we're in today speaks to our cultural. I could go on and on but you wouldn't want me to. And I'm only offering unsupported theory anyway.Brenda Whitesidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04162555468154752820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-1481762575436952132018-10-18T09:47:35.308-04:002018-10-18T09:47:35.308-04:00I haven't finished my first cup of coffee, Mar...I haven't finished my first cup of coffee, Margo, so I didn't even notice the type-o's. I think more than the bad-ass sniper heroine rejection, it bugged me that my brilliant, scientific-minded heroine was deemed not a relateable woman. Good God, can't women be smart in STEM subjects and be relateable? Are we trying to dumb-down women, or is she saying romance readers aren't smart? As always, thanks for the support when I was feeling a little like punching something.Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-88091799813438197002018-10-18T09:44:33.433-04:002018-10-18T09:44:33.433-04:00Wow, talk about stereotypes. I’m discouraged to he...Wow, talk about stereotypes. I’m discouraged to hear that “most” women still want to be saved by a big alpha male. Unwritten Rules has been my biggest seller, by far, and it basically uses the same tropes as the first book in this series—the only difference being that the hero is FORMER CIA. I’m glad to hear Tara is bucking the trend. I understand we’re writing to women’s fantasies, which for basic biological and societal reasons, haven’t changed much in centuries, but it’s still discouraging.Alison Hendersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12725250883303287946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-64429966940476256912018-10-18T09:40:55.179-04:002018-10-18T09:40:55.179-04:00Leah, the editor mentioned female cops, etc. in a ...Leah, the editor mentioned female cops, etc. in a straight suspense/thriller sub-genre being more accepted. Apparently James Patterson has one out. I honestly have never read one of his books (my bad). I also don't read Nora's JD Robb persona but have always loved her Nora romantic suspense books. I guess when you throw the romance into the mix as a major component, they want the traditional alpha male saving the little woman. So, it's the romance readers they're assuming want this stereotype. Mind you, she said she didn't think breaking the mold would lead to break-out sales (as opposed to so-so), which is what she would want to see from someone new-ish to print. Which is too bad because why not TRY to promote something a little different to see if readers would embrace it!Jannine Gallanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047728297429025804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9023937099212820339.post-50376601394517465552018-10-18T07:19:41.152-04:002018-10-18T07:19:41.152-04:00...more disappointment for another reason, not the......more disappointment for another reason, not the reason. And ....your daughter thought, not though. Geez. Auto correct can be a bitch. LOLMargo Hoornstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00036077481652050799noreply@blogger.com